Al Carraway

Al Carraway’s infectious enthusiasm and “wild optimism” has helped propel her forward through her difficult and uncanny journey of faith. A multi-award-winning author and international speaker, she shares her passion for life, happiness, and the gospel of Jesus Christ. True to her bold New York authenticity, Al talks about her disappointments and frustrations and how bringing them to God makes all the difference.

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Connie: [00:00:00] Welcome back. I'm Connie Sokol, your host, and I am thrilled to have our guest on today. Al Carraway, welcome. We're so glad to have you here. 

Al: Thank you. I'm elated to be back. How are you? Are you doing well?

Connie: I am great. Not as good as you who just got back from doing a marathon in Pennsylvania with your husband. So, yeah.

Al: Oh, yeah, it was awesome. Well, yes. And that is where I met my husband, so, it's like this cool full circle thing.  

Connie: Oh, my goodness. Well, we will have to bookend that. So, stay tuned. I'm going to do the official bio, and then we're going to jump in. That is fantastic. If you do not know Al Carraway, where have you been? She is a convert of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Connie: She is a writer, a multi-award winning international speaker and author of the best-selling books, Wildly Optimistic, More Than the Tattooed Mormon and Cheers to Eternity. After about a decade spent in Arizona and Utah she is now back in her home state living with her husband, Ben, [00:01:00] and three children. And she has spent the last 11 years traveling the world, inspiring others with the story of her conversion and faith through difficult times. 

Connie: And I love her passion, that happiness does exist, and it is through the gospel of Jesus Christ. And it is in every fiber of her being. It is an absolute delight. Every time you get to hear from this woman, you can just feel it leap across the pulpit and right into your heart.

Connie: So, let's jump right into the beginning of how this kind of began, because you made this pivotal move from New York to Utah. So, what inspired that, and what was one of the biggest challenges of making that huge move? 

Al: The whole thing was the challenge. The whole thing was a complete 180, but, in this moment, I’d just joined the church, just turned 21. 

Al: I just was abandoned by my family, and I thought God could not ask any more of me. And then He does. And so, He rips me [00:02:00] away from the only way of living that I know of, leaving behind my family, having to cope with the idea that maybe I could never hear from my dad ever again. And I thought that because God wanted me to do it, this is where things would get better, a little easier.

Al: They’d make a little more sense, and they just got so much worse. They just got so much worse, and I really had to figure out a solution to this. Still now, this structure of unwanted and unexpected that I am consistently still in. Because people were so mean to me. I didn't know how to react to that.

Al: I was dealing with new things that I didn't even know was an issue until I moved and…. I don't know. It was a lot. I was coming from a place of anguish because of all the sacrifices with my family [00:03:00] and joining the church. And then they got worse because people just didn't treat me that well, I was still trying to figure out what the church was and how God spoke to me and navigating all of that. And then I don't know…. It was a lot. It was hard.  
Connie: It makes me think about converts. Now, my family's left the church, and I came to BYU, and I can relate to you on a very small scale that way. I remember the first night we had dorm room devotional, and I'm clapping after it because I don't know you're not supposed to clap after it, and I’m wearing a pantsuit to the temple, ‘cause I don't know you're supposed to wear a dress.

Connie:  So, there's these things that people who are established in the church don't realize that converts go through. And the learning of it, it's a whole different dialogue, a whole different culture, and that's different than the doctrine, right?

Connie: Then this culture versus doctrine and things like that. What were some of the spiritual tools that helped you? Because that's huge when your whole foundation of family is gone and now you're trying to establish a new one, and people don't understand you and are judging you. What were some of the spiritual [00:04:00] tools that you really had to get core on? 

Al: Well, it's a lot, because there's so much when we ask someone to join the church and when they do join the church or participate in any way, it's a whole reconstruction of themselves. For me, it is 21 years of habits and traditions and things that you love, culture, things that just are, you know, that you grew up with and don't know any different.

Al: It's not just what you have to do that's different, but even the way that you have to think and process has to be different. Joining the church is the most personal thing you could ever ask of someone. It is having to cope with the idea that they have to leave behind things that they love. Traditions, family, and they have to navigate, Well, what now? What next?

Al:  I'm still learning. I don't even [00:05:00] know much of anything. I didn't have anyone friends wise, you know. I worked the night shift. People drove up to an hour and a half to our singles branch. I didn't have a bunch of friends that I could see. We were spread apart, and it was just me and it was pamphlets.

Al: And it was my life unraveling, because I got baptized. And, I just guessed. I just guessed my way through it from actual pamphlets that the missionaries gave me. I think probably one of the biggest things that I do now every day, still, my biggest rule of thumb to life, is to pay attention to a re-occurring thought, in any way.

Al: And so, maybe that re-occurring thought is to move across the country. Why does this state…I forgot Utah was even a [00:06:00] state. You don't hear about Utah if you're not like within the …? I didn't know. So, I'm like, Why the heck does Utah keep coming into my brain? Well, you know, let's just figure it out.

Al: And so, I go. And I didn't have anyone. Boys didn't want to date me, but I had this re-occurring idea. … And so, I don't know, it was between me and God, ‘cause He was all I had.  

Al: But that was the only way I figured out how we work together so well. Because I was able to experiment with Him. If I just sacrificed everything to a God that is real. Then in the times that I don't see Him, feel Him, hear Him. I like to ask myself… Well, instead of saying, Well, He's not there. I have to reel myself back in and be like, What if He's teaching me something new?

Al: If I believe that He is real and He is mine, which I do because I [00:07:00] sacrificed for that, then in those times I don't see Him, feel Him, hear Him, I like to look for productive ways to see what else, what next. And so, having it between me and Him, experimenting, being productive and not destructive in your unwanted and unexpected, taking a chance on your re-occurring thoughts is kind of the outline of what I came up with. 

Connie: I absolutely love what you just said. And my whole mind is just exploding with connections. I'm thinking about Elder Bednar, how he talks about what is unsaid. And that's what you're talking about is, Okay, when I'm not hearing it in the usual channels, what is being unsaid that He wants me to dig a little deeper for?

Connie: And I love that you allowed yourself to experiment upon the word, just like Alma said, that it's a continual conversion. And I think even established members in the church we can get casual, as Elder Renlund has said, about how we feel and connect with God. And you have a very real [00:08:00] relationship, and you just mentioned that a second ago. 

Connie: What is it right now that helps keep that real? I know you talked about the recurring thoughts, and I love that, but you're in a different situation now. You are not a fresh convert, fresh off the boat, so to speak. 

Al: No, it's been 12 years. It’s crazy!

Connie: And it's different, and it should be different, because you've moved along that gospel path and you've gotten deeper and there's more breadth and all of that.

Connie: How has your ability to connect with Him shifted? What have you noticed? You know, as we go along that gospel path, we mature and we do things differently. We don't have to be hit over the head all the time, like we used to be, maybe. But how has it shifted for you in any way? 

Al: Well, right out of the gate, I learned to be honest with Him, because no one taught me this proper way of anything.

Al: And I don't know if it's the New York in me, but I am extremely blunt, to a fault a lot of times, but I just say it how it is. If I'm mad, if I'm confused, if you've upset me, I'm going to let you know. I [00:09:00] try to articulate it in a way that is not angry, you know, hurtful. 

Connie: Delightfully direct. I love it.

Al: Yes. I am beautifully blunt. No, I don't know. And so, that is how He has become real to me. I know that people talk about gratitude in all things and counting your blessings, but I am not that person. To me, if I'm thinking about all the things that are going well, when I'm struggling, I feel like I'm at a stand still because it doesn't help me move forward.

Al: So, instead of counting my blessings when life is unraveling, I go to Him, and I am extremely honest with Him. And I have found that my specific prayers receive specific answers and I'm able to move forward more quickly because I take it to Him in a direct and specific way. I talk to Him as if He is standing right in front of me.

Al: And that is how He has become real to me. I realized that I subconsciously put this box around Him and how He comes to me and how He speaks to me. [00:10:00] A lot of times, this is going to be kind of a statement, you'll want to think about ‘cause I feel like it's profound, but a lot of the times, if we're not getting what we want or expect, we say that God is not there and He is not listening.

Al: If we are pleading for something that is important and it doesn't happen, we start to wonder, is He even listening? Like, wait, what? That's not what I wanted. And so, we say, Yeah, He's not there. He's not listening. I'm not getting what I am working towards, what I'm asking for. And just how limiting and inaccurate those thoughts are.

Al: The adversary, He is most productive in getting us to stand still and to skew our perspective. Ninety-eight percent of the time He gets to us in our mind to view it all backwards. And so, anchoring myself in the knowledge that He is real. Then I could be productive. I could be [00:11:00] honest. I can cast the adversary out. I can try and remove these limitations that I ignorantly put around God.

Al: I say this is how He has come to me, because this is how He’s come to me in the past so that when it's not in that way, I say, He’s not there. So, I try to remove those limitations. I try to not limit a limitless God. And I remind myself that my favorite things have come from the times I have lost my voice wondering where He is because I was screaming so loud.

Al: I am learning to embrace the unexpected because the unexpected, usually for me, has always been God intervening, and I remind myself, all good things come from God, including feelings. So, even though my situation is not good, God still is, God is still good even when our situation is not, because even if things are unchanging and [00:12:00] passing time still happens, I can say, well my kids, they made me laugh today.

Al: And, you know what, that is good. That could not exist if God did not exist. Good could not exist, even feelings, if God was not real. So, any good feeling, any feeling of hope or, you know, another chance to go at it again, or just the littlest feeling that all is not lost. Like that is God participating in your personal life. That is you experiencing God.

Al:  And so, I always tried to take a step back, recognize the adversary, and look for Him because He is there. And that helps me to move forward through the trials that He endlessly gives me.  

Connie: Lovingly, delightfully. You know, I appreciate how your feelings about the gospel remain so core.

Connie: And I've watched this through your journey, especially in, if we can tap into this for a minute. [00:13:00] I know president Nelson has shared that two of the most fundamental things are knowing our purpose and our identity. And I see you cling to that, hold onto that, and build onto that. And I know that you've had some really, over the years, continually negative responses from people about who you are, tattoos, your experiences, all the way down to, and you brought this up in a blog that almost brought me to tears, where people had said such rude things.

Connie: You don't belong. Nothing about you is Mormon anymore, that God doesn't love you. And about things like your weight, your hair color. I mean, it was mind blowing. In fact, I thought about Marie Osmond saying when she was 15 years old, the producers of the show stopping her in the parking lot and saying she was obese and disgusting at 103 pounds.

Connie: And she starved herself to 97 pounds because of the responses she was getting. So, I just want to talk about this for a minute. You have been able to [00:14:00] handle for years, 11, 12 years, people being negative and having opinions and expectations. And I've watched you be able to handle this in a way, instead of it making you scared and isolate, to stand firmer and stronger.

Connie: What are some of the tools that you've used to keep in that space? Because I know people listening, they want to be writers and speakers. They want to share God's message, but they get that pushback. And then they start to shrink. What are some of the things that you've been able to use that have helped you stay in that strong immovable space?

Al: If you want to be a writer and a speaker, you cannot bank on receiving anything from anyone. You cannot feel filled by the response of others. Because you will be very unmotivated. You will be very disheartened. I get asked all the time, Oh, doesn't it feel good when people say, oh wow, you really helped me?

Al: And I said, [00:15:00] Good or bad. Yes. Good or bad, I don't even think about it. I don't hold on to it. And I can't, because, and here's where it stems down to. when I first moved to Utah, I was 2,1 and I have never once felt uncomfortable with myself, not once in my existence until I moved to Utah.

Al: And for the first time I had people telling me, God could never love someone like you. Why would I ever want to date you? Who is going to marry someone that looks like that? Like, are you serious? How many guys are…? They just wouldn't for years, they just didn't. And you have to realize, I remember I was asked this question, What do you wish everyone could do before they graduated high school?

Al: And my response was learn to love yourself. If you invest in self-love, everything else becomes noise. I invest very personally and individually every day. [00:16:00] Every day I have to invest in me and in God. And when you love you and when you know God and you've learned to hear Him, then everything else is noise. 

Al: So, good or bad response, I'm still going to do the things I feel God wants me to do. And do I get it wrong sometimes, and it blows up in my face? I do. I'm still guessing. I'm still guessing, but I remember I wrote something several months ago this year and the backlash was so bad that even… 

Al: someone in Utah…Burgess Owens that he calls me on his personal cell phone. I didn't even know he knew I existed, but he found out my phone number and he called me to see if I was okay, because the hate was so bad. It was so bad. And after a few weeks it was snowballing into something even worse.

Al: So, it wasn't blowing over. And my husband said something [00:17:00] … You know, ‘cause people just drop this weight on you, and then they just move on. It could be the weight of their problems, the weight of their opinion, the weight of their hate. And then they just move on with their life, and then you're stuck with everyone's weight, and you have to figure out what are you going to do to get rid of this weight?

Al: And I remember my husband, he said, through the bad that one particular time, he says, I know you. I know when you feel like you're doing something God asks you to do. He says, had you known how bad things were going to be you would have still posted it. And I thought, I would have. If I am doing what I feel like I'm called to do, I'm just going to do it.

Al:  So, I invest to love myself. I do. I love who I am. I love who I'm becoming, and I feel like I love and know, and I'm excited to continue to learn this all powerful being who [00:18:00] somehow participates in my life, and everything else is just noise. So, if you don't love yourself, if you haven't gotten there yet, that is a good first step.

Al: Because if you love yourself, you will always give yourself the time. And if you don't love yourself, say yes, say yes to new things and to different things and get ready naked, and just do the things that make you feel filled. And what a disservice it would be to not show your kids how important it is to take care of yourself and your own life.

Al: I get asked, don't you feel guilty for doing all these things? Don't you feel guilty for going to Philadelphia all weekend just for mom to run a race. And I'm like, no, I don't feel guilty. I'm going to do it because I love it. And I'm going to take my kids along with me so they can see firsthand that it is important and it is necessary and that you're important in your own life,

Al:  You are important in your own life. Do the things that make you happy [00:19:00] Do the things that make you feel filled. Love God and serve Him and everything else is just noise. And then when you do that, you worry about you and you worry about God, life just blossoms. It just blossoms. It's not about them.

Connie: I love that you make that point because sometimes people end up with parallel lives with their children and with other things. They think this is one compartment and this is one compartment. And it's woven together. And as you feel you are fulfilling God's will, you're exactly right.

Connie: What are the things that your family is learning from you training for and running a marathon with your husband? It's fantastic. And I love that you have been open to what God has asked you to do and those new tracks, those different roads. 

Connie: So, let's talk about that for a minute, because you talked about the unwanted and the unexpected, and there has been so much unexpected in your life and so much good that's been unexpected but still that comes with fear, that comes with the unknown. How have you been able [00:20:00] to lean into and embrace the unexpected? What have you been able to do to do that? And what has it taught you? 

Al: We, last year, moved from Arizona back to New York, and God told us to do it. It was His idea. And we bought a house over the internet.

Al: Don't recommend it. Moved across the country, and we get here and we didn't get the house. And we were, ‘houseless’ is the word I will use, for two months. And I remember thinking, if God asked me to do something and it didn't work out, how could God allow me to not have a home to bring my children? Even that seems a little low for Him when my children are involved. Do whatever you will with me…

Al: We were in a single room hotel, and the time just kept passing. And the worst thing was that it was all out of our hands. There was nothing we could do that would have changed it. It wasn't [00:21:00] us. It was, you know, COVID and insurance and backups. It was everything that we had no control over, and weeks are passing and over a month passed.

Al: And I remember collapsing on the floor in front of my kids and in the hotel room, because where else would they be? And I remember telling God that I have nothing left. I'm thin. I got nothing. I felt like I was being left out to dry. And I'm telling Him this, right, ‘cause I'm honest with Him, and His answer rocked my world.

Al: He responds to me, while we don't have a home to live in, and He says, Why won't you let me bless you? Why won't you let me take you somewhere better? That's why I exist. And so, I just know that from seeing it through, from seeing your seasons through, we are allowing God the opportunity to show us how great He [00:22:00] really is.

Al: And that passing time does not dim His promised blessings. And, you know, what life shifting perspectives I've recently learned is Peter on the water. I don't know that we can talk about Peter on the water without talking about everything that could have gone differently. You know, we talk about, Look at how he failed. Here's what he should have done.

Al: I don't think I've ever sat in a lesson where we don't talk about, like, Oh, if only he would have done this, and if only he didn't get distracted, if only he had more faith. And I have learned probably the greatest thing through Peter in the most positive way, which is, Peter is the only one who got out of the boat.

Al: He's the only one who tried. He's the only one that did. He's the only one that made progress. He was the only one that got closer to Christ because of it all. And here's what I love the most [00:23:00] about Peter, is that when we hear, Oh, thou of little faith, it was not in response to his slipping, his slip-ups.

Al: It was not in response to his sinkings. It was not in response to his shortcomings. God did not have some negative salt in the wound. If you just fell, He's not going to be like, How could you? That's not the Christ that I know and love. And what I have learned and what I see, and learning to see more often in my own life is, Oh, thou of little faith, wherefore, didst thou doubt? was an immediate response to Peter's plea to save him, as if, saying, Of course I will save you.

Al: I will rescue. Yes. How could you doubt that? I'm [00:24:00]right here. I’m out here with you. My hand has never been shortened. Did you really think I was going to let you sink? And so, when I feel like I am sinking, and I think, How could you? In my pleadings I'm screaming to Him, because it's as if I might not make it.

Al: He is not there to make me feel bad about my shortcomings and my sinkings. He is there saying, of course I will save you. Why would you doubt that? Why? And then coupled with, Let me take you somewhere better regardless of what that path looks like. Our God is one who only exists to bring us to greater magnifications.

Al: Everything is a greater magnification here in this life. And I'm learning to be excited about that more and question Him a little less, because, yeah, my favorite things have come from my sinkings. [00:25:00] 

Connie: That is gorgeous. And you've made me remember, Elder Bednar was talking about when he and his wife were at BYU, Idaho.

Connie: I think they were doing either a training or something there, or it may have been when they were president. Anyway, he was talking in a Q&A and someone said, Why did I feel good about dating this person? But then it didn't work out. And he said, Maybe you needed to learn something from that experience that was preparing you for the right one.

Connie: And I think about you in that Liberty Jail moment where you're two months in a hotel room with three little kids, and that is not easy. Having seven kids myself, I have some experience with that. 

Connie: And I love that you went to Him in that honesty and that delightful directness. And you said, I don't understand. And He gave you understanding. And then you realize, like you just said, there's something better, and that shifted everything. And to me, as I'm watching your journey, it seems to me that the unexpected that He's brought you has been these stepping stones all along the way.

Connie: [00:26:00] When you look back to where you were moving to Utah and now you see where He's taking you, what is something, besides what you were just saying…What is something that you would offer to people who are feeling like, I don’t feel like I'm on my path, I don't feel like I've got my purpose, I don't feel like I hear Him directing me and guiding me?

Connie: Is there any tip that you would give them to try to seek that out or to feel that, to feel the purposefulness of what they're in and what they're doing? Because everyone has a purpose. Everyone has something that He's guiding them toward. 

Al: Our God is not a God of avoidance and prevention, and the faster we can remind ourselves, the more productive we will be.

Al: Our God is not only good when we get what we want. And surely, like, avoidance and prevention is not the definition of a miracle. A miracle is not avoiding and [00:27:00] preventing something. You know, if Christ prevented Lazarus from dying, mass conversion never would have happened. If Old Testament Joseph, if he was never brought to the hole, to slavery, to prison with the passing time, he never would have become a leader over all of Egypt.

Al: He never would have saved an entire civilization. You know, Lehi suffering in the wilderness. If that was avoided and prevented, he would have been killed. He would have been destroyed. And Christ, What if that was avoided and prevented? What if He was never killed? If that was avoided and prevented, we wouldn't have anything.

Al: Surely avoidance and prevention is not the goal. Surely God is not good when we are avoiding and preventing, you know, from the unwanted and the unexpected. That's not the miracle. God is good even when our [00:28:00] situation is not, because He keeps His promises. Because He is not overlooking or ignoring or punishing, nor is He playing favorites. But He is, in fact, working hard with every little detail to make sure it's even better than what we have in mind.

Al: So, if you are trying to figure out, Well, what about me? Where am I in all of this? Are we investing in the time to know? I just finished studying Doctrine and Covenants every single day on a separate Instagram page. I read everyday on Instagram to feed our soul, and then I do a little History in Context. But we have every single section of Doctrine and Covenants because someone went to the Lord with a question, with a problem.

Al: And God, He takes what we give Him, and He responds back with solutions, with ideas, kind of like the whole hotel thing. I felt like it was the Brother of Jared barges. I learned that not working out [00:29:00] is it working out, because of the fruit that wouldn't have come otherwise. I was engaged to a boy. Didn't marry him, and I felt very inspired to get engaged to him.

Al: Why didn't it work out? Why did I move to New York if I am homeless? Like, Why is it not working when I am doing what You are telling me to do? Kind of like Peter, Peter is only on the boat because God told him to get on the boat. You know, him walking on the water, he didn't want to go for a nice sail on the water.

Al: He only did it because God told him to do it. And so, what I have learned from Peter is, what if it's not about walking on water? What if it's about going to Him through it all? If our God is one who even the winds obey, why didn't He stop the winds while he walked? Why did He tell him to get on the boat during the storm that He could've stopped and didn't until he was back on the boat?

Al: What if it's about [00:30:00] going to Him through it all? And so, be honest with Him. Invest in learning about you. Say ‘yes’ to new and different things. And feed your soul. Are we doing the things that feed our soul? I don't know, but take it to Him and pay attention to even the unwanted and unexpected ideas that come up. 

Al: Because, you know, are we allowing God to be God? I don't know. But every time I have said ‘yes’ to a re-occurring thought, even if I hated it, especially if I hated it, then. . .

Connie: The fruition, the thing that He ultimately wanted. And I love that you share how to lift our sights and look deeper, farther, higher, because that's where He's looking, that's where He's taking us.

Connie:  Oh, this is so good. I want to shift gears for a second, because another unexpected is that, of [00:31:00] you being able to meet your husband. So, I would love to know, because a lot of people don't know, how did you meet your husband? You've got people saying, No one's ever going to date you.

Connie: And then you go to this opposite of finding this amazing man. How did you guys meet? And what was the thing that shifted for you? 

Al: We pen-paled each other for a year and a half, and we never knew each other until we met. He was serving his mission in Philadelphia, which is where we just were.

Al: And he was one of the, I think, five missions that piloted Facebook way before they were allowed to be on Facebook. And at the time I was making YouTube videos, so his entire mission added me on Facebook. And we would talk about his mission, never really anything else. But he was allowed on for an hour every day, and I had a desk job, so I was on every day, and we would talk.

Al: And everyday I would get emails. I would get a Facebook message ‘cause he was on Facebook. And we talked about the [00:32:00] church every day for a year and a half. Not thinking we would date. I probably wouldn't have done that if I knew he thought that something could come from that. 

Al: He calls me right after he gets released. We hung out the very next day, his first full day home from his mission. And now he's stuck with me. 

Connie: It’s an eternal thing. I love that, that your first and solid foundation was gospel connection. And that's how you saw each other. And that sounds pivotal, because that's the whole crux of your life, and what you're doing is sharing your gospel experience? 

Al: I was already in doubt, and I was working Saturdays. And then aside from that, now, I am very single, mind you, I wouldn't even come close to this now, but at the time of my very singleness, I was going to the temple three days a week, twice for myself, and then once for my shift.

Al: And so, when he got home from his mission, I said, This is what I do. You can either come [00:33:00] with me… I'm doing it anyways, ‘cause it's important to me. And so, our very first time ever meeting in person we go to the tumble together, because I was not going to let some boy change what I wanted to do.

Al: And that's been so good for him to, right out of the gate, learn and really flourish and just this encouragement of things that I wanted to do.  

Connie: That is fantastic. I love that. I love that you stay true to who you were, and you hear that from leaders who say, you get it in the doing, right. You're going to find the person in doing what you love to do and being who you are. So, fantastic.

Connie: And I want to take that one step further. Now you have three children. Again, another unexpected, right? What is it that you find yourself teaching, or sharing, or doing with your girls that maybe you wish someone would have done that with you when you were young or that you look and go, I'm grateful I get to do this with them now and start them on this trajectory?[00:34:00] 

Al: Oh, I don't know. You know, I didn't really grow up in a religious household. So, anything I'm doing now is better than what I grew…. Well, I’m doing better ‘cause I didn't have it at all, so that's nice. What is most important to me is we're only here once, like, we're alive!

Al: We have breath in our lungs and a heart that is beating, and this is it. Now is the only time. And I absolutely want to teach them and show them with myself, especially by doing, is to live a life of great intention, to be intentional about what we're doing with our time. 

Al: We don't have a lot of money. We barely have money, but yet we went somewhere new every other week this summer. We just got in the car and just drove. Sometimes we didn't know where we were going. But it's important to us to just take advantage of what we have, because this is it, all we have. [00:35:00] What if all we have is today? And so, I want them to know what is most important.

Al: God is most important. Living a life of great passion is important. It's just, we don't have time to be upset and confused. You know, it's fine to feel those things, but it's not fine to live in it. Here's ways that I've learned to get out of it, to be productive with it, to just laugh it off, to say, ‘yes’ more, and you know, What makes you happy?

Al: Why are we doing it? Don't do it. Who cares? You don't know what makes you happy? Let's try a few things. Why not? Why wouldn't we invest in ourselves and in this life, because we're only here once? I want them to know that is so important. I want them to know that God is real. I don't, I never say, Let's pray.

Al: Did you say your prayers? I don't use that verbiage. Have you talked to God yet? And when I [00:36:00] say it that way, their prayers have shifted. Their perspective, it just shifts into something that is more tangible and real. And that I think is such a great tool. Did you talk to God today? And sometimes when we say really quick prayers, I'll say, Gracie, is that really what you need help with today?

Al: And she goes, No. I said, Let's try it, and we do. It's important to talk to Him, really talk to Him, and to say ‘yes,’ and to love what we have. 

Connie: This is gorgeous. I am feeling… I'm a pretty passionate person, and I am feeling electrified with this passion of living today and loving who I meet and grabbing my kids when they walk in the door today and just giving them a love.

Connie: Like, I seriously am so inspired and so excited about this. I love that you have been able to keep the passion no matter what's been happening, no [00:37:00] matter what people are trying to, you know, poke the balloon. 

Al: I'm too stubborn. I refuse to be unhappy, dang it. And then Susan in our ward is not going to be the reason why I'm living a crappy life. I don't care what you say to me. I mean, so yeah, I'll probably cry about it for an hour, but man, I refuse to have a bad life. So, if it's bad right now, let’s figure it out. I refuse to let anyone bring me down.

Al: I just, I'm too stubborn to live a bad life. And so, I am desperately seeking ways to magnify it ‘cause I know that that is what God exists for. Take advantage of it.

Connie: This is so fabulous. And I think this is why,  I remember you had said once before that one of your books, even though you loved all your books.  I know, I'm a writer and you love your books. It’s like children.

Connie:  But there is one that you just go, That was my Opus. That was my reason for being here. And you've said that about the book Wildly Optimistic, and I think it's a beautiful connection to what you're saying in your attitude about life, your perspective, this [00:38:00] whole feeling of Why wouldn't we be optimistic?

Connie: We are given all the gospel tools. We have the plan of salvation. Everything else is just ancillary, and we're getting back to Him and what a gift. In that, is there one topic, one principle in Wildly Optimistic that stands out to you, for those that are listening, that you're like, Ooh, that is such a core thing for me that was such a reason why I wrote that book. Is there one that stands out at all? 

Al: I don't know. I think it was everything that we talked about. Each chapter is a theme within a trial. Each chapter is when we don't hear Him. Another chapter: When it's not what we wanted, When it's not working out, When we need to change.

Al: Every chapter is something that I've struggled with and found Him through the struggle. And so, if you feel at any time that you do not feel Him, hear Him, see Him, [00:39:00] that is a book to read. It is a good perspective change, because the adversary absolutely exploits us in our wonderings and in our wanderings, a hundred percent. And, how to get rid of 'em? ‘Cause we can, we can do it. 

Connie: And you keep moving fearlessly forward. It's just beautiful to see you take the next step. And you're not worried about it being a beautiful step. You're just taking the next step, and I see you suggest that two people of, if you don't know what's next and no matter if it's an embarrassing thing or it's a clumsy thing, that you take the next step. 

Connie:Which brings me to, I was just watching a reel of Brook Walker. I do Studio 5, and she was talking about how many times has she done something embarrassing on media? And she's like, 50 times, 500 times, right? And she was like, keep counting. And I think about when I did one of my first podcasts. I was doing Dean Hughes, and I said, Oh, is this your first book?

Connie: You know, it was like his 93rd book. It was so embarrassing. But have you had one of those media moments, whether you’re speaking or podcasting or something where you've had [00:40:00] an oops moment and it's been a fun, or it's been a keeper moment? Has there been a moment like that for you? 

Al: My whole life I’ve been laughing at my stuff. Yeah. All of them.

Connie: I think it's fantastic. You keep this sense of humor that allows you to take what comes and that Elder Wirthlin thing, “Come what may, and love it.” And then keep moving forward. Now, I know this may be a little more personal question, but like in your book, More Than the Tattooed Mormon, have you ever had questions about, Are you going to ever get your tattoos removed? or Do you feel like you want to move beyond being known as a tattooed Mormon?, blah, blah, blah. What's your thoughts on that?

Connie:  

Al: Oh, I hate the nickname. Always have hated it. Hate it. It was a battle with my publishers that it was even mentioned in the title of my first book. I only have control over so much of it, but, I just, I hate it. But, [00:41:00] it's a complicated question because, one, I didn't even notice I have them. Don't even care. 

Al: I received a blessing, shoot, 10 years ago that said, God does not see them. They don't exist to Him. So, that was actually the perfect lesson of repentance and the Atonement as a whole. Can we fully understand something that's completely clean? Not that He chooses to ignore it, but that it just doesn't exist.

Al: And so, I taught myself over a decade ago, if He doesn’t see it, then what do I care? You know what I mean? I only care about Him. Now there's a part of me…. I go to my kid's PTA, and a part of me just walks into PTA, and I wish I didn't have them, because I feel like that's not who I am.

Al: But, 99% of the time. That's not even church… That's just kids PTA. But [00:42:00] 99% of the time, it’s not even a thought, not even a thought. I don't even anymore. And, you know, I've heard often that when people hear from me for the first time, meet me for the first time, they don't even…. People say, Do you get asked about your tattoos a lot?

Al: And I say, In person, when they meet me? No, almost never, because after they'd talked to me, it's like, not even a thought. 

Connie: I have to absolutely agree, because this is the first time I've actually met you in person. And I didn't even think about it until we're X amount of the way through, and I see your hand going up, and I happen to see it, and I'm, like, oh yeah, that's right.

Connie: So, it is true. And I think you bring up this beautiful thing, that the very thing that has made you who you are, and this path that you've taken has been this beautiful gift, this unexpected, sometimes unwanted, gift that now it's in this perfect place, just like it was before and even now. [00:43:00] And we don't have to be ashamed of these things.

Connie: As we come to Christ, we all have our things, and He doesn't want us to feel ashamed. He wants us to let go, and come to Him. And like you said, flourish within those and use them for good. I could talk to you for another hour. I wish that we had it, but wrapping up and kind of winding down here. When you are thinking about this journey that you've been on of navigating faith and creativity and gaining these professional skills of speaking and writing, internationally, that you hadn't even planned on. All of these things.

Connie: How have you been able to navigate all those unwanted and unexpected, beyond what you've shared already? What has helped you stay in that space of, I can live my beliefs no matter if I'm in New York or New Zealand, doesn’t matter, I'm living it? No matter what challenges come to me, I am living it and I'm loving it.[00:44:00] 

Al: Self-love. I think the contrast of not having it helps with my wonderings and my wanderings and just investing and having that contrast. I don't know that I have a well articulated answer to that except. I know that God is real and He is mine and He is good. 

Al: And exactly what you said, whatever you have, whatever you are carrying, you can let this go. You can, and you should move forward. I had a bad day. You just have those bad days for just a ton, a million, little, little things, little things happening. You just keep dropping everything, and you're like, Grrr. Some days you just watch the clock waiting for the day to end.

Al: You're waiting for the day to end, and you're waiting for the season to end. You're waiting for a season of struggle …. And my husband, he goes to [00:45:00] pick me up, pull me up from sitting down, and he wants me to dance with him and I don't want to dance with him. I am mad. I am depleting 

Al: I want to be left alone. I want the day to end, and dancing with you with no music in my kitchen is not what I have energy to do, but I like him. And so, I stood up and we danced in the kitchen at 9:30 at night with no music. And the audacity of him to feel like he could change my day at 9:30 at night.

Al: And he did. Even that late at night, even that late into the season, we hit the reset button. And I think there's something to that. I think that we forget that we can change things, and we should. And every passing second is a chance to turn it all around. And the unexpected is God intervening. And even [00:46:00] when we don't see Him, He's sharing and showing us what else and what next and everything. Every, every step is the miracle, and tell the adversary to shut it. You don't have time for that.

Al: You have a life full of great purpose. And even if you're in a hard season, hard seasons don't last forever, but they do all bring forth new blossoms. Are we seeing it? I don't know, but they are there. And everything you need, all of the promises, all of the blessings that we're trying so hard to attain, they're all in past tense, prepared.

Al: God, He has already spent the time, the love, the work, the effort into preparing those ultimate magnifications that you get here in this life. And you are deserving of all of [00:47:00] them simply because you are his. Your only qualifying factor you need to everything beautiful and blossoming in this life, you already have and you cannot change. You’re His, and that is everything.

Connie: Hmm, absolutely gorgeous. I feel so fed and so joyful, I can't even express it. I am loving this, and I know our listeners are loving this as well. If they want more from you, where is the best way for them to reach you? 

Al: I'm all over the place. I'm on Instagram, Al Carraway. I'm on Facebook. I write a lot of books. I speak a lot. If you want me to come speak you just shoot me an email, and I show up. 

Connie: Fantastic. Amazon has her books. And absolutely love these gut truths and this honest, New York, beautiful, passionate way that you share them. It is just a shot in the arm. [00:48:00] Thank you so much. And thanks for sharing your time and your passion with us today.

Connie: And for those of you who love this interview and want more, go below. Rate, review, and subscribe, and, as always, check out the other interviews we have that help each person who comes to this table to feast, find and navigate their way through the intersection of faith, creativity, and professional skill.