Lisa Mangum knew from her earliest years that she wanted a life surrounded by words and books. Growing up, she and her mother “bonded over punctuation marks and paper clips.” Now as managing editor at Shadow Mountain Publishing, Lisa has guided several writers who have become New York Times bestselling authors. In this episode, Lisa tells all writers, “You are important, and the story that you have is important.”
Email: lmangum@shadowmountain.com
Lisa Mangum knew from her earliest years that she wanted a life surrounded by words and books. Growing up, she and her mother “bonded over punctuation marks and paper clips.” Now as managing editor at Shadow Mountain Publishing, Lisa has guided several writers who have become New York Times bestselling authors. In this episode, Lisa tells all writers, “You are important, and the story that you have is important.”
Email: lmangum@shadowmountain.com
Connie: [00:00:00] Welcome back. I'm Connie Sokol, your host of Called to Create. And we are thrilled today to have our beautiful guest. I cannot tell you how lucky we are to have this wonderful person talking to us today about books, about writing, about all things. And this is our beautiful guest, Lisa Mangum today. Hi Lisa. Thanks for coming.
Lisa: Thank you. And that was Loki who just walked across the screen because he’s a cat. That's what he does. I'm so glad to be here to talk to you today.
Connie: We love you coming on. And this is the beautiful part, I was telling her beforehand, it's very kitchen table wisdom that we share around here as if you guys are all in this kitchen together, we're all chatting. It's COVID, so I've got my joggers on underneath. I think you might have pajama bottoms. I mean, we're just rolling it like we do, just like a boss.
Connie: So I love that you have taken time today because we are talking to our audience, who are aspiring speakers, [00:01:00] writers, musicians, all the things, and they want to know how to make this happen. So today, as I can tell you, there is one word that I would absolutely use to associate with Lisa and that is ‘books’. We're going to talk books today. So if that's what you're looking for, you are going to get this beautiful fire hose because she has loved and worked with books since her elementary school days.
Connie: In fact, she volunteered at the school library during recess. Can you see the beginnings of greatness? And her first paying job was shelving books at the Sandy library. And then she spent, what, five years at Waldenbooks working there, went to University of Utah, graduated with honors, graduated with a degree in English and then started the publishing department at Deseret Book, been there since 1997.
Connie: And now you are the managing editor at Shadow Mountain Publishing. And as you know, she has worked with several New York Times bestselling authors, Ally Condie, Brandon Mull, Jason F. Wright. We cannot wait to find out all the scoops. So we're going to jump right in. Talk to us about these early days. I love [00:02:00] hearing about people's first love with books. So tell us what it was about books that drew you or what it is that that really sparked you at a young age.
Lisa: A lot of it was my mom. In fact, probably 90% of it was my mom. My mom was a writer as well. She wrote nonfiction and she worked at the Ensign magazine.
Lisa: She was the assistant managing editor for the Ensign magazine for many, many years, like 30 years. But when I was little, one of my very, very first memories is taking a copy of The Secret Garden to my mom and saying, Read this to me. And I was probably three or four years old, and we sat in the big green rocking chair that we had in the house.
Lisa: And Mom read me The Secret Garden, and, ever since then, I've had books in my life. And my parents were always great about encouraging me to read and to write. We always had books laying around the house. If it was my birthday, I'm like, Just buy me books. That's all I want. And they were so supportive, [00:03:00] encouraging of my love of writing and storytelling and reading.
Lisa: And my mom said she had that background as well. We bonded over paperclips and punctuation marks. And we would talk books and editing all the time. So when I was growing up, I knew that I wanted to be an editor. That was a thing people did. My mom was an editor and I wanted it to be just like her.
Lisa: So that's really sort of what started me on this path, surrounding myself with books and with words and with people who love to create, because my mom did that for me.
Connie: That is so tender. And I understand she passed away a few years ago. Is that correct? I remember seeing a post that you did, if this isn't too tender, but it's still stuck with me, in fact, it still tears me up. And the paperclips were a thing, right, between you two? And that it was during an experience, you happen to find a paperclip at a really important moment. Do you remember that?
Lisa: Yeah, I've actually, ever since Mom passed away, she passed in 2018, [00:04:00] I've I frequently have found paperclips at important moments. ‘Cause Mom and I, when I was growing up, we always used to joke that we knew we were destined to be a family because Heavenly Father put us together and read with the whole group.
Lisa: And we all got talking about editing and punctuation and paperclips and writing, and everybody else wandered away. And it was just me and Mom left and He said, Well, you gotta be family then. So we would always joke about that, and after she passed, I thought so much about how we stay connected and how paperclips can keep things together, and I sort of adopted it as a little personal totem, and then I started finding them in places.
Lisa: 2020, when I was diagnosed with breast cancer, which my Mom also had, the day I went to the hospital for one of my first big appointments after being diagnosed with cancer, I found a little pink paperclip right outside the [00:05:00] hospital door before I walked in.
Lisa: And so it was a little moment, like Mom's here with me. She still is aware. She loves me. I'm going to be able to get through this, you know, just that little moment of connection. And that's a really special thing that I still, to this day, feel whenever I find a paperclip or someone gives me one.
Connie: That is so tender. Oh my goodness. And to still feel that connection, ah, I have to take a second here. I just love that and that this early love of hers, you were able to connect through it. And I love how it sounds to me. She was so encouraging and supportive of your journey. So did you see yourself early on as a future writer, I mean, you saw yourself as an editor and you are, but did you see yourself as a writer? And, then, what got you into actually doing your own writing as well as the editing?
Lisa: It was a little fragmented, and I actually started being a writer long before I was going to be an [00:06:00] editor. I remember in eighth grade we had to write our autobiographies, ‘cause I guess we were going to peak in the eighth grade, and all anybody was going to care about was that. But I remember, writing in that autobiography, I like to write, but I don't think I'm very good at it. I'd been writing poetry and short stories and long stories and dreaming about being a published author, my whole childhood.
Lisa: And then somewhere in that seventh, eighth, ninth grade, that voice of self-doubt and that imposter syndrome kicked in and, sadly, I listened to it. And so I stopped writing, really, eighth, ninth, tenth, through high school. And that's when I sort of transitioned and said, well, if I'm not going to write books, maybe I can edit books so I could still be around them.
Lisa: So, I sort of stepped off the writing path onto the editing path. And since my mom had done both, she could also teach me and help me move the editorial side. And so I went through high school and college with the idea that I was [00:07:00] going to work for a big New York house and find fabulous people that do all of the things.
Lisa: And right after college, I was hired at Deseret Book to be a part of their publishing and their editorial team. And so it just happened very, very quickly. And then I've been there ever since for Deseret Book, and I didn't start writing again until like 2007, somewhere around there, when I had this idea for a young adult romance trilogy, The Hourglass Door, and it just sort of, like, downloaded into my brain one day.
Lisa: And I'm like, oh my gosh, I have to write this down. It's going to be the best book ever written in the entire English language. So, and it's all on me, so I'm going to do it. And that was what kickstarted me back into embracing the writer part of me. And, then I've written four books, done some short stories, and novellas. and a few other things alongside my path of being an editor at Deseret Book and Shadow Mountain.
Connie: That is absolutely gorgeous. And I hope those [00:08:00] listening can see that. I mean, those are four national bestsellers just to throw that in there that she's not sharing, but I love how you shared that those doubtful voices, people listening have felt those and people who… Brandon Mull talks about that.
Connie: Every time you go to do a book, it's like those voices come back and then imposter syndrome. I love that you named it. And I love that you share how you took that safe path and just what you could do at the time. And yet it still blessed you to keep moving forward in that dream, unbeknownst to you, when the timing was right and the experience that you've had, and you were able to step into that. So why YA? You read all genres, you love all genres. Why that genre?
Lisa: Well, and actually at the time I was working on an epic fantasy, my heart, growing up, was always an epic fantasy, and the fatter, the book, the better, and, so, I thought that's where I was going to be, and that's the kind of book that I was going to write. And I was sort of working on one and had for a little while. And actually, it was something my colleague at Shadow Mountain said, [00:09:00] Chris Schoebinger, we were talking one day about new books coming out, and Twilight, New Moon had just come out, and Eclipse was just about ready to release. So of course that was like the height of the Stephanie Meyer, Twilight, kind of thing. And Chris made this sort of offhand comment about, like, What would you write if you're going to write a YA book? And he's like, Why is this so popular? And I'm like, I can tell you exactly why this book is popular.
Lisa: I broke it down, and I broke down the plot, and I broke down the characters. And I'm like, This is why everybody loves it. And he's like, Well, what would you write? And I'm like, I don't know. I don't write YA. And we were both going down to a conference in Provo that night, and on the drive down, I kept thinking about Chris's question. What would I write if I was going to write YA, and that's when the story just downloaded. I'm like, well, it would have this kind of girl, and we'd have this kind of boy, and it would have this kind of story. And in the 45 minutes, it took me to drive from my house to Provo, I had [00:10:00] plotted out all three books.
Lisa: And when Chris showed up to the party, I tackled him practically. And I’m like, Look what I did, I found this story, and I just dumped it all out at his feet. And he's like, you should write this. And I'm like, yeah, I'm writing this. And so, it was just that sort of the right question at the right time. And I was ready for the right kind of story to get me back into putting on my author hat and indulging in that kind of creative expression in that moment that I hadn't had since I was in middle school, really. And I just poured myself into it. And I wrote the first draft in eight months, and it was published, from start to finish, when I very first got the idea to when the book was on the shelf, was just almost exactly two years, which is super fast.
Connie: So fast. Oh, my gosh, move over. JK Rowling. Wow, you just get in, do it, there, it's done. [00:11:00] I love the process of that. And I love that you bring up, it was that question that stayed in your heart and wriggled in your mind. And so many of us just push it aside, and we go to carpool or we go make the donuts for the day.
Connie: Instead of letting it simmer and then taking a step with it and saying, What if, what if this could be? I love that he posed that question, Well, what would you write? Fantastic question. So I want to kind of segue into when you started working at Deseret Book. How was that? It's gotta have been intimidating. What was some of the learning curve that you had on editing or was it, Well, I had so much experience with my mom, it wasn't that stressful. Were there these learning curve pieces as you were progressing and up leveling in that?
Lisa: Yeah, when we started with Deseret Book, I actually started just as a freelance proofreader. I had applied originally, they had an opening for the children's book buyer in their retail department. And I'm like, well, I've worked at a bookstore, and I like kids books. I'm like, I'll just get that job [00:12:00] and then I'll weasel my way over to publishing, right? That's a great plan. And instead, I didn't get that job, but Ann Sheffield, who was the manager at the time, called me and said, we actually don't want you for the children's book buyer position. We want you to be in publishing and be one of our proofreaders. And I’m like, I didn’t even have to go through years of a job that I didn’t really like. This is exactly where I wanted to be. So I took their proofreading test, and I got the highest score they'd ever seen from anybody on that test.
Connie: But thank you, Mom. I mean, Wow!
Lisa: And to this day, I got 97% on it, and most people on the same test average about 83 to 85%. It's a hard test.
Connie: Oh my word.
Lisa: So I'd worked as a freelance proofreader for Deseret Book for a few months and then Bookcraft, which was still a separate publishing company at the time, had an opening for an editor. So I applied over there, [00:13:00] and I got the job. And then, so that was 97 when I started working at Bookcraft, and then in 99, Deseret Book acquired Bookcraft, so I was back under the Deseret Book umbrella. So that's why I had a couple little different sidesteps, but it's really been always under the Deseret Book umbrella. And yeah, at the beginning, I didn't know anything.
Lisa: I knew books and I knew story and I knew punctuation and editing marks and developmental editing. I knew some of those basics, but I didn't really understand, like, the process of publishing and what that entails and how to plan for it. I was an editorial assistant for a really long time, and that was great because it meant that I learned every single step of the process.
Lisa: I learned how to do corrections. I learned how to write copy. And I learned, you know, proofreading. Whatever it was, I had a hand in it to help out everybody else on the staff. So when it came time for me, after 10 years I was promoted [00:14:00] from an assistant editor to editor, to an editorial assistant, which is just the next level up. And then I was able to start being assigned books where I was the editor, where I was in charge of the whole process, start to finish. And not helping anybody else, but to have people helping me. And so, by then I had fallen into it, and I knew how the process worked and, I just, all these years, do the same thing every day, but every book is different and every book has its own personality.
Lisa: I'll be working on a cookbook or a middle-grade fantasy or a non-fiction or an adult historical fiction. And that's what keeps the job so interesting and so much fun because I get to meet all these new book friends and help shape them and help get them into the reader's hands, which is where they belong.
Connie: Oh, it's like you're birthing the books. You are a book doula. That's what you are. I love this. As you moved forward, now your managing editor, and we know you've [00:15:00] worked with some really big names. What has that been like for you working with them on that level? I remember Sheri Dew talking about in one of her talks that she had a meeting at Deseret Book, and you were all trying to get, like, Let's get a New York Times bestseller on the board, right? One.
Connie: And then they said, well, no, we're going to make it really happen. And she was like, Great! and then walked out and was, like, Zero chance. right? Not in a dis way, but just like, yikes, that's a big thing. And you ended up putting five on the board that year, I think, if I remember correctly.
Lisa: I think so. I don't remember how many and now we have quite a long list of books that have been on the New York Times bestseller. For me personally, Jason F. Wright’s book, The Wednesday Letters. That was one that I edited, that I was the editor on, and that did make the New York Times bestseller list. And so I have a little particular pride on that one as well, especially since I found Jason in the slush pile many years before.
Connie: And the slush pile worked!
Lisa: It always works. I mean, you have to be the [00:16:00] lucky one that kind of gets through the gauntlet. But, I still to this day find diamonds in the slush pile, and my little spidey senses tingle. And I'm, like, there's something about this one that feels like this is the right one. And every year I get four or five of those that I pull out and we either publish, or it gets really, really close.
Lisa: And then somebody else publishes it, which I still count kind of as a victory, like, I knew it. I knew this was the book. This was the book that was going to get published. And even if we don't do it, somebody else does, and I love that.
Connie: I have to share. I just have to. So, many moons ago, I submitted my book, Faithful, Fit, and Fabulous, and it got in your hands. And I still have the letter somewhere in some beautiful, sacred box that, I'm like, don't ever throw that away. This beautiful letter that you sent back, which was, We're not able to accept at this time, you had other ones that you had accepted that were kind of similar and had just acquired.[00:17:00]
Connie: And, yet, your letter was so profoundly inspiring and motivating. You said, This is well-written, and I recommend that you reach out to another Latter-day Saint publisher because this should be published. It's good. And I cannot even tell you what that did for me. And I did. I went to another publisher. They published it, and then I went on to publish several more, and now 18.
Connie: I want you to know that you make a difference, and I'm really honest. I try to be so professional, but I'm going to tear up again, because one of the biggest comments that I hear, common comments, about you from so many different people, is she is the kindest, most encouraging, most loving person in the book business.
Connie: And in this role of having to tell people ‘No’ to their baby, right? Your baby is not going to fly this way. And you had this gift of kind candor, of being able to share something with someone that may be hard or work with them to [00:18:00] see if they can get it to be just what it needs to be. Where does this come from?
Connie: Because not too many people have that gift. And I see this over and over. When you talk to someone at a conference, you speak at conferences. And I'm at Storymakers, and I watch how you look at each person. And the only word that comes to mind is ‘behold’. Where the Savior said, We need to behold people, not just look at them. And you see them for who they are and who they can be, and on their journey, which, you know, we're just all so insecure about our writing. Does this book make me look fat? How do you stay in that space? Where did you get that gift?
Lisa: I think a lot of it, sorry, Loki is deciding to… I think a lot of that comes because very early on books were my refuge. They were my safe place. And they were someplace I could go and be transported to someplace beautiful or magical or inspiring or historical. And they all just [00:19:00] sunk deep inside of me. And there were many, many times where the real world just wasn't going to cut it. And it was just too much and too hard and too whatever.
Lisa: And I could always find a book that matched my mood, or that lifted me out of it, or that story that would comfort me. And so I think I grew up knowing that books have that power and have that ability to protect and to elevate and to inspire. And seeing my mom, her words do the same thing in the articles that she would write for the Ensign or that she would work with the Relief Society president on an article or something, that I could see directly how words could change a person and save a person because they'd saved me many a time.
Lisa: And so I think when I go to these conferences, or when I get submissions, and when I talk to people about their books, I feel a great deal of [00:20:00] responsibility to respect that journey that they're on. To say, you are trying to tell a story, because you know the power that your words have as well. We're in this kind of space to honor the story and what it can do. And so I don't ever want to be the person that says what the voice said to me, which is, You're not a very good writer. You really shouldn't do this. Like there's no point for you to try to even contribute into this space because nothing you have to say is worthwhile. And that's the voice that I heard from me.
Lisa: And I don't ever want to be the kind of person that says that to somebody else, because there's value in all different kinds of stories. Now, not every story is going to get published. That's the business part of it. That's the reality of being a profitable publishing company. Not every book gets published, and not every good book gets published, but I believe that every story that is written down is important, whether it's just you reading [00:21:00] it, or your family reading it, or nobody reading it, or 800 million people reading it. The fact that you took the time to write something down and lay yourself bare on that page, I don't want to come mucking about with my big black boots and crush that.
Lisa: And so I try to be really encouraging and really careful and to help people see where they might be able to improve or to encourage them and say, This part is really good. Don't change this. Don't break this when you're reworking, because this part is really good.
Lisa: And so that, I think, is because I want everybody to feel that same kind of safety and that same kind of comfort that I had growing up with my favorite book by my side.
Connie: Oh, that is just gorgeous. I'm sure everyone listening is doing the same thing. I am. I'm thinking back on those books, those pivotal moments, you remember where you were and reading it, right?
Connie: I remember someone saying, I remember exactly where it was when I finished The Book Thief. I remember Harriet the Spy changed my life, and I would go around and fingerprint my [00:22:00] family with watercolor paints. You know, like, oh my goodness, the power, like you said, the power of the word and made me think of the Savior of how this whole earth came into being by the word.
Connie: And this creating stories, it is an act of creation that we are creating this world. It is a sacred space, And this, like you said, this vulnerability to take the thoughts and ideas and very quantum physics, it's all there but it's not until we observe it, and it comes into being, right, that we honor the process, whatever level or stage people are at. That's absolutely gorgeous.
Connie: I'd love to know, too, as you've done this with the writing and helping people in creating that safe space, I hear writers say a lot of the same things all the time, the doubts, the writer's block, all the things. And I look at the people that you've worked with, and sometimes people put them kind of on this pedestal of, well, Brandon Mull has this down or Ally Condie got it down now.
Connie: And then I saw that she went to get a writing degree, and people were given her grief. Why do you [00:23:00] even want to get a, like, a writing degree? You already have these best-selling books. So what are some of the things you've learned from these best-selling authors that would be good for people listening to know they are just like you and you can still pursue your dream? They still have doubts like you have, and this is what they do to overcome it, or this is what they've done to keep moving forward in making these stories happen.
Lisa: The best advice is something that I actually heard from Tracy Hickman Which, he and Margaret Weiss wrote the Dragonlance series, which, growing up, was one of those pivotal, landmark series for me, and little did I know when I was young that one day I would be working with him or be in the same circle with him, or be able to sit down and have lunch with him.
Lisa: And one thing that he said that stuck with me is he said, “I have not yet written my best book.” Which I really loved, because he was saying, It's not that my other books that I wrote were bad, but it means that there's always space for me to learn something new. There's always a place for me to grow, [00:24:00] and something that I could try that maybe I haven't tried before and that I can continually improve as a storyteller.
Lisa: I really liked that because it gives us permission to make mistakes, to learn something new, to grow from it, to experiment and find joy in writing and in the process because it should be fun. Writing should be fun. We should enjoy it. We don't always because sometimes it's horrible, heartbreaking, and difficult, but that's what we signed up for.
Lisa: But I love that idea. So when you do have the doubts, when you do have that writer's block come in, when you do look at all your friends who are getting book deals and somehow you are not, or you see the bestseller list and you think I'm never going to make it there. I've been in this, been trying 15, 18, 40 years, however long it's been, and nothing's moving.
Lisa: You can remember that there are still, and always will be a good book inside of you, and maybe you just haven't written your best book yet. So just write another one, and maybe [00:25:00] that will be your best book. Maybe it's the one after that.
Connie: I think Anne Lamott's the one that said there will always be that one book that's in the drawer that will not be published. And I love that because you've got to go. There's no skipping steps, and I'm hearing this from you. I hear this from so many others. I found this for myself, wanting to try to find some formula to just boom, hit the high road right out of the gate. And there is no formula for that. There is no skipping steps.
Connie: You have to go through those processes, maybe faster, maybe differently than other people, but there isn't any skipping steps and you wouldn't want to, because you want to keep producing those books. We did a podcast with Jennifer Nielsen, and she was talking about how she had hit that low with the book that she thought was going to totally be published.
Connie: It was an apprentice, wizard's apprentice or something. Anyway, but she ended up taking pieces from that book, that was rejected a bazillion times, to make her ultimate national bestseller book, and then all the best-selling books after, came from that. So you're absolutely right. And on that note, I do want to [00:26:00] ask you, because you have such a good eye and people listening are going to be, you know, frothing at the mouth. What do you look for in a story when you have those spidey senses tingling and you know this is the one. Are there any points that just surface, anything that stands out to you where you're, like, They nailed it. That's the thing. Something that people could go back and look for in their own writing.
Lisa: For me, because I am in the slush pile all the time, and there's tons of books, submissions to look at, and I'm always behind and just trying to work my way through it. For me, often what is the first thing that catches me is that there's some kind of invitation for me to keep reading. Because when I come to the slush pile, when I come to a manuscript for evaluation or that we're working on, or whatever, I come as a reader first and foremost. I have my reader hat on. I'm still the four-year-old girl in the rocking chair with The Secret Garden and my mom. I'm still the kid in eighth grade discovering epic fantasy for the first time. I'm still, you know, the [00:27:00] person in college who dove into Beloved by Toni Morrison, and it changed how I thought about things.
Lisa: Like I'm still that person, and I will always be that person. And so I want to fall in love with your book. I’m looking for a reason to stay engaged. I'm looking for that invitation, and that invitation can look like a number of different things. It could be a super interesting plot setup. It could be a super interesting genre mashup. It could be a particular line of narration or dialogue that just, like, catches me. And I'm like, Oh, that, those words, that's nice. I appreciate the artistry of that moment.
Lisa: It could be, you know, the goal that they're trying to accomplish. The voice of the character. I'm looking for something, and the more of those invitations that I find, the more likely I am to finish reading the first chapter or the second or all the way through because if I love it as a reader, I am more likely to be able to champion it to everybody else who has to weigh in to publish it. So that when I put my editorial hat on, I [00:28:00] can say, okay, this book is amazing. This chapter is terrible. We gotta fix that. And there's some problems with the end. Yeah, I know, but I know what to do. But, oh my gosh, I can't stop thinking about it. Like, that's the experience I want to have.
Lisa: And that's usually the experience we have as readers. When we go to the bookstore, we're looking for the same kind of thing. We're looking for an interesting plot, a fancy cover that catches our eye or character, or something on the back cover that makes us accept the invitation to go on this journey and to experience the story. And I just want to fall in love with your book. That's what I want, and selfishly trying to cherry-pick the best books that I want to read that I don't have to pay for because they come to me in my email box.
Connie: And that's a perfect win-win. I love the way you described that. I call it my 2:00 AM book, those books that I pick up and I cannot put down. And I know I got a big day the next day and I'm like, I don't care. I've got to see what happens. I've got to know what happens with this character or the plot or whatever.
Connie: And I love the [00:29:00] dialogue or I just, I can't put it down, and it's so satisfying. I think there's very few things so satisfying as when you get done with a really fabulous book and it just, it's like getting done with a great meal and you just go, all the senses are satiated, that was fabulous, right? That was just a ride.
Connie: And I think you're right. People want to be invited into this world that you have created and want to love being there. So thank you for sharing those beautiful tips on that. You have another book. By the time this season drops, it will be out, but you have another book coming out. Tell us about this project and what brought this one about.
Lisa: Which project are you talking about?
Connie: It's the one on February 11th and the delicious stories with the twist.
Lisa: Oh, yes, the anthology. Yeah, Eat, Drink & Be Wary. So, those anthologies came about…I do them for WordFire Press, which is owned and operated by Kevin J. Anderson, fabulous New York Times bestseller. And again, a person that growing up I never in a million years would have ever dreamt that I [00:30:00] would be on a first-name basis with him and, like, hanging out with Kevin because he's my friend. But he is my friend, and he runs the Superstars Writing Seminar that's held every February in Colorado.
Lisa: And many years ago, seven or eight years ago, I had attended for the first time as a guest to be on the panel and a few things, and Kevin had told this story. And he sort of related this idea about the importance of professionalism as a writer and the importance of trying to say ‘yes’ whenever an opportunity arises because you don't know what that ‘yes’ might lead to.
Lisa: And so he had the example where he's, like, If somebody asks you to write a story about a purple unicorn, you better write the best purple unicorn story you can. And I was in the front row, and we were all on, sort of, a group chat on the Facebook, and listening, and I'm typing, like, well, now I will kind of want to read some purple unicorn stories. And so, by the end of that conference, I had this idea, and I went to Kevin and I said, Look, what if we do this? What if, for the attendees of [00:31:00] this particular conference, we do an anthology of purple unicorn stories, and I'll edit it. And then the attendees get an experience of writing, submitting, going through the process of getting an acceptance, going through working with an editor, getting published, they’ll have a publishing credit under their belt. And then all the proceeds from that anthology can go back to the scholarship fund to help more people come to the conference. And Kevin was like, that's brilliant. And so we did that. And then every year, it got to be so popular that everybody's, like, What's the theme for this year? What's the anthology for this year? What are we doing for this year? And so, I've done now, I think, this is the seventh or eighth anthology that I've done for WordFire Press.
Lisa: And they're fun. They're a lot of work, I'm not gonna lie, but they're super fun. So this last one that's coming out is called Eat, Drink & Be Wary: Satisfying Stories with a Delicious Twist. And so, the call for submissions was it had to have [00:32:00] something to do with either food or drink. And it had to have some kind of twist ending that I maybe didn't see coming, or that, that kind of turned the story on its head. And I got about 70 stories, I think, that I had to pair down to the 19 that ended up in the book. And I love that process of seeing the creativity that comes up and the stories that come up, and the ones that I choose to be in there.
Lisa: One of my favorite ones, and as soon as I read it, I knew this was going to be the first story in the book. And I wish I had it right here, and I would read it to you. It's pretty short, but the first line was, “Don't trust the fairies.” And it was all about this advice, like, If you go and you get captured by the fairies and you eat or drink anything in the fairy realm, you have to stay there. And that's the mythology, that's the lore. And it was written into this first-person kind [00:33:00] of mourning voice. Like, you gotta be careful. If they offer you, you have to say ‘no’, whatever it is. And it goes through this whole story. And then at the very, very end, the twist is, the narrator says, But if you do happen to find yourself there, bring me back a bottle of elderberry wine, there might be enough magic left to heal these broken wings of mine.
Lisa: And you realize that it was a fairy the whole time saying, You gotta be on your guard. You gotta be careful. But if you do, I would really like this back. And I read–it’s just about 500 words; it's pretty short–and I read it and I'm like, chills. And I'm like, this is going in the book. This is going to be the first story in the book. I try when I do those anthologies to pull lots of different genres and lots of different styles and some that have happy endings and some that have macabre endings and some that are funny.
Lisa: And the anthology are really some great writers that are in there. Some of [00:34:00] whom have signed deals with Tor, or have previously published with other big-name publishing houses. And some of them, this is the first thing that they've tried, even, to write or to publish. And they're like, I didn't know what to expect, but I guess I did it right because you liked it. And now I've got this publishing credit, and now I feel confident in my work. And so, it's a really fun experience that I get to do every year.
Connie: Wow, that makes total sense to me that you would be inspired to do that. That is a type and a shadow of just who you are and what you do. Having this beautiful place and space that's safe for people to come, share, and then get on that writing path and you send them on their way. And you're like, I'm right here along the way, like the runners with the water cups. And you're like, you can do this, you've got this. How gorgeous, you have not just spent your years punching a timecard.
Connie: You have spent your years changing people's lives, Lisa. I just, this [00:35:00] has been a tender thing today. I think of how much you have influenced my life and how I have in turn been able to, hopefully, influence other women in their realm. And now that's what I do is I teach women how to write their things and get their start.
Connie: And they're not in your position but in my little way. And I think that's what's so beautiful is that as we listen to these stories and these experiences and these life lessons from people, one of the takeaways that I get is make it meaningful. Whatever you do, do it for Him, so it helps others to uplevel and be their best selves.
Lisa: I know we've talked about so much today and, oh my gosh, I wish we had another hour, and we could just get a cup of herbal tea and just connect. Is there one piece of advice or one thought that you would like to leave with those that are listening? They're in all various stages. They are writing. They want to write. They're avoiding writing. They're stuffin’ down brownies because they feel like what they're writing isn't good. What piece of advice or thought would you like to leave them with today?
Lisa: Oh, that's a big ask. There's a [00:36:00] lot that I would like to say and have said in the past, but I think for me, when it comes right down to it, I would want people to know that, You are important. And the story that you have is important. And whatever that looks like on the other end, whether it's published or unpublished, whether it's something you share with your friends or keep for yourself, it doesn't matter. What matters is that you, as an individual, as a writer, as somebody who puts words down on paper or has an idea that they want to share, a message that they want to connect and build a bridge to relate to another person. That is important.
Lisa: And the work that you do is important. And the story that only you can tell us is important. And we need those stories, and we need people to be brave enough to tell those stories and to be brave enough to level up wherever they can in telling those stories because you [00:37:00] never know when your book is going to be the one that a little kid is going to say, Read this to me. And that's how we understand ourselves and each other and become closer together is through the stories we tell each other.
Connie: Beautifully said. Absolutely spot on. For those that are listening and are going to be clamoring to find a way to connect with you, what is the best way for people to reach you?
Lisa: I'm on Facebook at Lisa Mangum and on Twitter at Lisa Mangum, big surprise. I'm on Instagram at @authorlisamangum. You can also find me–my work email is lmangum@shadowmountain.com. You can go to shadowmountain.com, the website, to find instructions on how to submit your manuscript to us. Our next open period for open submissions will be March, or you can just send whatever you have in then if you'd like us to take a look at it. I try to be around the block, and I'm at conferences a lot trying to teach and to meet new people and see what's out there in the big [00:38:00] wide world and find people to watch and stories to acquire.
Lisa: So if you can't find me online or in person. My address is, no. But really, my work email or in either Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram, I'm on there all the time. You can always grab me there, and ask me questions, or tell me what books you're reading that you love, or ask for a recommendation. Let’s just talk about books.
Connie: You are amazing. And I love how we have bookended this with wrapping up about books. And I have absolutely delighted in this conversation today. You are a gem, this beautiful, uplifting, connecting, and book author cheerleader feel that just emanates from you is just lovely and inspiring. So thank you for taking time to be with us today.
Lisa: Thank you. It was great to visit with you.
Connie: Such a joy. [00:39:00] And if you want more of these beautiful podcasts, believe me, you do. These people are amazing and they will help you every step of your journey. Then go below and rate, review, and subscribe. Go to the ldspma.org website, and you can find out what the next ones are so that you can get just the thing you need to keep moving on your journey when you feel called to create.