Called to Create: An LDSPMA Podcast

Josi Kilpack

April 06, 2022 LDSPMA/Josi Kilpack Season 2 Episode 5
Called to Create: An LDSPMA Podcast
Josi Kilpack
Show Notes Transcript

Josi Kilpack, an award-winning author of over 30 books covering multiple genres, distinguishes her stories by creating likable, relatable characters with quirks. Never intending to become an author, she wrote her first manuscript while pregnant and bedridden with her third child. In this interview, she shares tips and tricks she uses with every book that have kept her writing when she didn’t want to write.

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/josi.s.kilpack

Instagram https://www.instagram.com/authorjosiskilpack/

Josi’s website https://www.josiskilpack.com/

Josi’s books can be found at Deseret Book, Seagull Books, Amazon, or her website.

Connie Sokol (00:00):

Welcome back! I'm Connie Sokol, your host, and I am thrilled to have this next guest. She's a personal friend as well as an incredibly successful author. And she is just a beautiful human being. So if you haven't had a chance to get up close and personal with Josi Kilpack, today's the day. Hi Josi. Thanks for joining us. 

Josi Kilpack (00:21):

Hi, Connie. Thanks for having me.

Connie Sokol(00:23):

I'm so excited. And like I said, it has just been a joy. She is the kind of author, I just want you to know, when you read her books, you feel like you're not just transported by her writing, which is so, I would say almost lyrical, but so from the heart and soul. But you feel like you just made a best friend. Like, I just know her heart and feel her. So really it truly, in fact, one time I got done… Okay, by way of personal introduction, I'll give you the official one, but I was reading there in her series the Mayfield Family. And this is not a shameless plug, but it will sound like it, but Promises and Primroses and then Daisies and Devotion, and I read Daisies and Devotion. I remember I was, both of them are just incredible, but I got done with that and I had to text her right away and say, This was phenomenal writing. And I'm picky.

Connie Sokol (01:10):

So I just have to tell you, she did not pay me. I have no brownies coming to me from this beginning, but I wanted to let you know, it is such a beautiful opportunity to find out a little bit more of the woman behind the pen. So today let me give you the official bio introduction. She is the award-winning author of several novels across a spectrum of genres and a contributor to several anthologies. And she's also a four-time award winner and a best of state in fiction. Isn't that right? Oh my gosh. Like amazing. In addition to her writing, she enjoys reading, travel, cooking, and naps, not necessarily in that order, and works as a real estate agent in Utah and Southern Idaho. She is the mother of four and lives in Northern Utah. And I will just say that this woman has had years of experience in the writing field. And I want to get into the details of how you've been able to go into all these different genres and still be so successful. It's a hard transition to make. So let's just jump right in, and let's go back to the start of all this. Goodness, I understand that you feel like writing for you began with reading, but you didn't even like reading when you were young. Is that right?

Josi Kilpack (02:20):

That's true. Yeah. As a kid, I didn't like reading and I can look back now and see that I actually had some, I don't know if I go as far as to call them disabilities, but I wasn't a great reader. Like I was always in the lower reading groups and things like that. And I didn't enjoy reading, so those things usually go hand in hand. You're not as good at something and you don't like it. And, so I didn't pursue reading as a young kid. And then in about seventh grade, I think that my abilities have kind of caught up, and I had to read a book for a school project that I’d put off and put off and put off. I had to do, it was like a term project just to read a novel, which I didn't do.

Josi Kilpack (02:57):

And so my mom ended up handing me  The Witch of Blackbird Pond kind of late in the afternoon, and I had to read it in a single day in order to get this assignment done. And I can look back now, you know, at the time it was just a thing that happened, but I look back now, and that really was a transition point for me. That's when I really fell in love with reading. It was the first book I remember ever reading where I wished it wasn't over. And, so then I started reading and mostly novels, you know, but it made me a better student and a better learner overall. And, so I did, I fell in love with reading. 

Josi Kilpack 03:31):

And when circumstances were such that I decided to try my hand at writing a story, I feel that my best education was just the, you know, hundreds of novels that I had read. And, like anything, when you apply yourself you start picking up on formulas and things and stuff that works. And so when the idea came to write my own story, which happened when I was on bedrest with a pregnancy, I'd had years of reading stories. So I kind of subconsciously understood story arc and character, to an extent. Still had lots to learn. And I would say that's my key to having been able to write as long as I have is that I'm very aware that there's so much more to learn. But that writing endeavor there ended up being my first published novel after the baby was born and things were settled. And that first experience wasn't fantastic. It wasn't well-produced, it wasn't well-marketed, it wasn't easy to find. But I then learned a lot from that experience that helped me to get better and to apply myself differently. And it has been quite a journey ever since then.

Connie Sokol (04:46):

I see that thread that you're talking about. Beautifully stated, by the way. And I see the thread that you're talking about of this, you know, it wasn't the perfect time or it wasn't whatever. And then the opportunity came. And so I did it and then that wasn't exactly perfect. And yet I learned and moved on from that. And I love what you are sharing of being a constant, perpetual learner of how the process, how it works, how to do it better, how it works for you, being able to tweak and finesse all the way along. It's not like this achievement point at the pinnacle of the mountain, and you're just there. Now I'm an author, right? You've written 33 novels, and you can see through all of that, your writing has just gotten more succinct and sharp and clearer and just more delicious to read.

Connie Sokol (05:34):

So I love that you bring that up. And the reading is such a companion to that. I love, too, that I remember one time we were talking and with that first novel, I think this may be the one, but I remember you had talked about an experience where you wrote something and you sent it in and you were just so sure it was going to be a bestseller, right? And I wanted to dive into… our audience is going to be listening, and they're mostly Latter-day Saint people. They were very faith-based, very strong. And there is this myth sometimes that if we are covenant keepers, we pay our tithing, that we are going to have a best-selling book, right? And there's this almost expectation like the Lord should bless me or whatever, whether we admit it out loud or not. But what was your experience with that? And what is your take on that for those that are listening?

Josi Kilpack (06:16):

Yeah, so it was that first book. And because I had never had aspirations to be a novelist. I mean, I can look back now, and that story was just kind of a short story. It was written because I literally had nothing else to do. But I'd been reading a lot of books, and I'd been watching a lot of “Lifetime Television for Women.” And I got this idea for a story, and it was like, I need something to think about other than my frustration of not being able to manage my life right now. Because I had two little kids, and I was on bed rest with the pregnancy. It was going to last for months. My sister would come over every day and help me manage my life. My husband, at the time, was working two jobs. It was not a super happy time.

Josi Kilpack (06:57):

And so I came up with this short story idea. And I just thought, well, I'm just going to write it ‘cause I've got this idea. And then it ended up being this novel-length story, and I was stunned. And I thought, just as you just explained here, that like I had this latent talent within me all of these years and suddenly a switch has been flipped and now I'm a writer. And I have everything that I need to be a writer, because I didn't know what I didn't know. And so I fully expected, I sent it off to three publishers, and I fully expected all three of them would accept it. I worried about how would I make the choice? And I would feel so bad hurting the other two publishers' feelings. And, you know, all of these things I told the people that knew I'd written this book that it'd be out in time for Christmas, for them to buy as gifts for their, you know, visiting teaching sisters and stuff, and just very naive and had no idea what the actual publishing process was.

Josi Kilpack (07:52):

And granted, this was 20 plus years ago when we didn't have the options we have now as far as electronic publishing. So I was very traditionally published. And then realizing that the book wasn't really well done. It was rejected by all three of those publishers. And so I had found a smaller publisher that ended up publishing it. But even that I paid for a significant portion of the costs for it to be published. And, because it wasn't super well-written, it wasn't great. But I didn't know anything different and I expected it to be, yeah, this is the answer, this is the talent that I never knew I had. And, then that turned out not to be the case. And I had to really learn how to write and how to do better.

Josi Kilpack (08:34):

And it has led me to kind of developing a theory. I don't think we come with talents as we sometimes perceive them. And it's much easier to perceive talents and other people than it is ourselves. But I think what we come with is, we come with a collection of gifts. And it is as we combine those gifts and use those gifts that we grow them into what we would think of as a talent. And, I put it in four categories. So the first is ability. And that's the one we see in other people, like she's so talented at the piano. Well ask her how many hours cumulatively she has practiced over the years. What has she sacrificed to be able to play the piano the way that she does now? But she may have an ability, and that's what we often see in other people.

Josi Kilpack (09:18):

And what we admire in other people is an ability that seems so simple for them. But for me, I would say that my ability within writing is that I'm a pretty good storyteller. And if you talk to my mother about the stories that I crafted as a child, try and get out of chores or, you know, trouble, she would say, Yes, Josi was a very good storyteller from a young age. And then, so ability is one that we expect. And then the next is opportunity. If we have opportunities to utilize that ability or to grow something. If I had never tried to write a story, if I'd never been on bed rest, then where would it be? I don't know, because I had an opportunity where literally I had nothing else to do.

Josi Kilpack (10:02):

And that became a powerful part. The third type of gift is example. When there's someone around you who has done something similar, it makes it real. It makes it possible. And while I didn't know any writers, my dad is a very talented artist, and I had watched him his whole life pursue his art. He was an art teacher, but he also did a lot of freelance projects on the side. And so I had seen someone grow that ability and talent into something viable. And so I had that example. And then the last is desire. And I really wanted to do well, which is why even though that first book wasn't, you know, it wasn't successful, I guess, I wanted to do well. I was just stubborn enough that I kept at it and that I continued to learn.

Josi Kilpack (10:51):

And I think we see this in people all the time. You know, people who garden, people who sing, people who are incredibly good with their hands. You take a collection of gifts, work that together, add your effort and your time, and it becomes a talent. But then everybody else sees and thinks, Oh, how lucky! She's so lucky that she was born with this talent. And, I am lucky that I had all those gifts. But I also have ownership in that because I utilize those gifts, and I combined them together to make them into something that has been an incredibly enriching part of my life.

Connie Sokol (11:30):

Oh my goodness. I love what you just shared. And the idea in my mind, as you were talking is, it's this recipe. We have an infinite number of recipes that we can make with all the ingredients that are inherently ours. And then we can add in those new seasonings and things as we desire. And we seek after them, right? That we seek after those gifts.

Josi Kilpack (11:51):

And it comes down to a kind of agency. I mean, it's the very basis of agency. Where do you want to put your time and effort? Because it isn't just there, it isn't just a switch waiting to be flipped and suddenly you've arrived. I have continued to grow and stretch and learn through 20 plus years of doing this. And that's because of those different gifts. And I find different gifts when I put more effort into it, and it becomes something amazing.

Connie Sokol (12:19):

I love that. And it's so obvious how that's translated in your life because you've started with one genre and you've moved to another and another almost seamlessly is what it looks like. It's beautiful how you've done that. And I know that means there's a lot of transition on the backend. But take us to that, that's a brave thing for an author to move from one genre to another, and to hope that the following follows, but also to be able to go from contemporary, the cozy mysteries that you have. And there was how many novels in that cozy mystery? Thirteen! And the culinary mysteries, you know, which were so great: Baked Alaska, and, oh, the Pumpkin Roll, all of these great ones. And then you're going into something like historical fiction with the Mayfield family and the Mayfield romances. What made you want to switch that gear? And what was that transition like? Because people listening are…creatives naturally want to put sort of different fingers in different pies and there's pros and cons and there's strengths and weaknesses and wins and losses in making transitions. So how did you approach that?

Josi Kilpack (13:24):

Well, I wish I could say that I really thought it all out and planned it and exercised upon my plan, but I didn't. On my side of things, it's been a lot messier than that. But I have been very, very lucky, very blessed, very grateful for the chance that I have had the opportunities to explore different things. So I started out writing contemporary LDS character based fiction and eventually started publishing with Deseret Book, which was a great place to be at the time. They were just expanding their fiction line. And it was kind of a right time, right place at the right time scenario. But I was, I still was writing those types of novels. And then I had had this idea for a mystery novel at a time when my career felt kind of flat.

Josi Kilpack(14:12):

And I had written the first chapter for a writing contest. But I got enamored by this idea of writing something totally different. And it didn't have an LDS character; it was the first book I'd written without that. And so I just kind of played around with it on the side while I started then publishing with Deseret Book. And when I realized this was going to be a complete novel, I went to Deseret Book, and because of our relationship and because of what they were hearing from their readers and their bookstores, they were looking to kind of expand their fiction. And so again, you can say right time, right place. But I had years of working with them and working well with them and being a reliable writer. All of those things that they kind of took a chance on me, and it went really well for both of us.

Josi Kilpack (14:59):

 And so then I wrote that one, you know, I wrote that series, worked on it for seven years and was trying to develop another mystery series. But I couldn't get it to quite come together. But they had just started a romance line a year or so before. And I asked them if I could submit some ideas for that because a lot of readers that read mystery also read romance. And so I thought, I think I can bring my readership with me and then also expand and write romance. I thought I'd write a couple of romance novels, kind of cleanse my palette and then can go back to this mystery idea. But I ended up really liking it there. And I'm really enjoying that.

Josi Kilpack(15:40):

And so I've done that for years. How many years? Almost seven years again. And I've written several novels there and now I'm kind of transitioning out of that. And what I'm working on next is another cozy mystery idea. Not every writer gets that opportunity from their publisher to do a variety of things that way. And so, I'm very grateful to Deseret Book for giving me those opportunities. But I also acknowledged that I was paying attention and I was seeing what was happening. And I was showing some diligence in the decisions that I made. I haven't been writing whatever I want. I'm writing what I think people are going to buy. And I pay attention to the market and I pay attention to trends and I'm watching. And I love the opportunity that I've been given to stretch myself.

Josi Kilpack (16:29):

But that comes from, again, paying attention and also knowing this is a career for me. And so, I want to sell what people want to read. I was able to do some women's fiction, and I did that through a national publisher under a pen name of Jessica Pack. And it was just a little, slightly different work that wouldn't really appeal to exactly the same readership. And it wasn't something that fell under Shadow Mountain or Deseret Book’s umbrella. And so I published that with Kensington Press and was able to kind of stretch again. As I have grown up and aged and experienced life, there's different things I want to explore, different types of people I want to explore, different storylines. And I found that for me, I have to find that balance between writing what the market wants and what people are going to pay for. ‘Cause I only get paid if people buy my book. But also looking for ways that I'm also stretching and challenging myself and exploring those things that are interesting to me. And I've been really grateful for that chance to do that, because that then edifies me throughout that experience

Connie Sokol (17:35):

That is gorgeously put. It just makes me think you learn, stretch, grow, write, share, repeat, rinse and repeat, right? And you've been able to hit those touch points of, you're dedicated, you do your homework, you make your deadlines, you show up, you're an integritous employee or a writer that comes and says, this is my craft, and I am going to continue to craft this. So the people want the voice and the writing no matter which genre you end up going to, which is really an incredible hallmark for you as an author to be able to achieve at such a young age, in my opinion. That's just a beautiful space to be in. And that begs the question for me, because you bring up this as you stretch and you're trying these different things, and you're not afraid to do that. You've also been unafraid to have unusual characters that… You know, historical fiction, they have the heart shaped face and, you know what I mean?

Connie Sokol (18:30):

And they've got the lyrical laugh. I mean, oh, it just drives you crazy. And the lashes that go against their porcelain skin. But you have created characters that have quirks and they have a club foot and they have a really abrasive laugh in like Daisies and Devotion. You've created these characters that are not exactly gorgeous cookie cutter themes and people, but they're real and people relate to them. And yet you explore that humanity. Talk to us about how you…That's a brave step in such a formulaic seeming kind of world. You take these brave steps and really showcase real characters. Do they draw from life? Does it come to you because you want to mirror your readers? Like, how do you get that inspiration? And then what's that process in putting that into a story, like you said, that people will still want to read.

Josi Kilpack (19:22):

Right. You know, there's times when I have to take certain elements out of my stories, ‘cause I write it and it ends up being too much, or I take it beyond where a character can be relatable. Years and years ago, I wish I could remember who said it, but it was at a conference that I went to, and someone had said, nobody wants to read about a perfect character. And as soon as they said it, I could think of all those books that I read where I was frustrated because that character seemed perfect. It seemed like they had everything figured out. They were beautiful, they were smart, they… And so the novel ends up being a series of events that happens to this very perfect person, and there was always a sense of frustration. And, my characters… After that, I became more aware, but I'd already kind of done it. But I tend to write flawed characters in one way or another.

Josi Kilpack (20:13):

Because characters are what drives stories for me. It's what drives the stories I write. It's  what drives the stories I read. Give me a good character and you've got me. But, plot is only semi-powerful to me. And so, I want to see how this character grows; I want to see how this character changes throughout the course of the story. And in this workshop, they talked about that, that ultimately is the subconscious, that's the subconscious cheese that we're looking for with every book that we read, is we want to see the character grow. And the reason why is because we want to believe that we can grow. We want to see that reflection. We want to feel hope for them because sometimes we don't always feel hope for ourselves. And we want to see that accomplishment. And so I now write very aware of that.

Josi Kilpack (21:00):

And so I do look for some flaws somewhere, somewhere that this character… Because if they can start out flawed, that gives them that much more arc that they're able to grow. And then, because I've written so many books, I'm trying to set them off from other characters that I've written. And so, okay I need to do a flawed character. I need to come up with something big for them to overcome. How do I make them different then the last one that I did? And so, as you read through my books, if anyone were to go back and start with my first historical fiction and start reading through it, you can kind of see it. You can see that, okay, well I used this, so now I can't do this. I need to work on a different flaw. And luckily, you know, we as people have a wide range of flaws to choose from. And so it's relatively easy to find something. But then I have to really dig into that and find that balance between flawed but likable and relatable. And, I appreciate you saying that about my work. It is something that I consciously strive to do. 

Connie Sokol (22:10):

I so appreciate that you do that because I think, like you said, it does give all of us that hope and the interest in what's going to happen to them, and how is this going to resolve, and how is it going to bless their life or impact their life and others. It's just gorgeous to be able to watch. And that also leads me to, as you're writing these flawed characters, how much of this actually impacts you as a person? How much do you learn from this? I mean, I always want to ask, what's one of your favorite characters and why is it? I know that in my own writing, some of my favorite characters are the ones that I have learned the most from which sounds odd when they come from what seems like your own imagination, but it is, like you said, this gathering, gathering of gifts, gathering of ideas, gathering of people and thoughts and examples, and what's been a favorite character. And then how have your characters impacted you?

Josi Kilpack (23:00):

That's a great question. I'm trying to think, ‘cause I didn't prepare this. And so let's see…

Connie Sokol (23:07):

I like to keep you on your toes.

Josi Kilpack (23:09):

I appreciate it, Connie, you're gettin’ me. You know, some of my characters reflect something of my own that I'm dealing with, that I'm working on. So, for example, Lenora in Miss Wilton's Waltz, she's dealing with anxiety. Now, I don't deal with that kind of anxiety. But in the last six or seven years, I have found that I struggle with this anxiety and I really don't know that I ever did before, but it's kind of this new thing. And, so writing that character was really me exploring a character that dealt with that to a point where her life is significantly impacted by what anxiety creates for her. And so there was this kind of personal journey that I took with her throughout that story. And I found some resources in there. One of the things that she does is she… and I had read it somewhere and so I put it into her character.

Josi Kilpack (25:01):

 And that helped kind of cement it in my own life, which is dealing with anxiety by cementing yourself in the present, which is looking for things that are sensory items right now. So looking for three things that you can see. What are three things you can hear? What are three things you can touch? And it's something that can pull you out mentally from this anxiety, which is usually based on anticipation of the future and keeping you kind of in that present. And as I explored that with her and showed her doing that, that's something I find myself now doing when I'm struggling with my own anxiety. And that was really cool. And then I have a character like Alice in Lord Fenton's Folly, and she's the kind of person I would love to be.

Josi Kilpack (24:45):

She's very confident of herself and doesn't do everything perfect, but she can hold her own. And I’m better at that in some situations than others, but I would love to feel so much confidence in my opinions that I could openly argue or openly debate with someone when they're just pushing on a boundary of mine. And I'm maybe able to say, no, look, this is where my line is and you don't get across that. And, I'm not so great at that. And, so a lot of my characters reflect little bits and pieces of my own journey. And I think that's probably true for every writer in one way or another. And some of them are a little more created. For example, Cassie, Cassandra in The Vicar's Daughter, she's not one that I relate to super well. She's very artistic, and she ends up creating this kind of deceptive situation. And I've never done that. I'm always too… I'm kind of a rule follower, and I don't like to do those types of things. So I didn't relate to her very well, but I still kind of crafted her and can still see some things. I liked the way she handled her mistakes. And so all of them kind of are reflective in one way or another, some stronger than others.

Connie Sokol (26:00):

I love it. Oh, and I think that's probably what makes your writing so enjoyable is because it has that feel of authenticity. It has that realness to life, whatever century that you're placing it in, it still feels here and now. I love that. So tell us too, as you're talking about this, it's making me think, you know, as a writer, it's been a long haul. You've been writing since 1998. You've written 33 novels. That's a lot of life that's going on in the background. So for those that are listening, there's going to be times where they're like, I want to throw in the towel, like I'm so done on this roller coaster ride of writing. And the things that you're trying to craft and trying to do, and there's research and there's writing and then maybe writer's block and all of those things. What do you do when you hit those highs and lows? What do you do when you hit those valleys of, I just cannot do this, or you have a deadline and you still have to perform? Is there any advice you can give to those that are listening when they hit those sure-to-come places, because that happens for everyone? Any best-selling author that I've talked to says the same thing, it's all part of the package deal. What's some tips that you have or experiences that you've had that you could share…this is something that I've learned?

Josi Kilpack (27:16):

Well, you know, it kind of depends on where you're at with your writing and what you want your goals to be. There were times when I wasn't on as strict deadlines where if I wasn't feeling it, then I didn't write. And I cleaned out my closets, and I made better dinners. And I, you know, maybe I had a kid who needed more attention at that time. And so one of the first questions I asked myself when I hit that, and for me, writer's block is usually, I don't want to do this. It's not that way for everyone. But for me, that tends to be where it comes from this, I don't want to. And then I have to kind of look at that and say, okay, is there a reason I'm not wanting to? Is it because there's someone in my life who needs my attention?

Josi Kilpack (27:56):

Is it because there's another project that I need to take on? Is it because this is the wrong story for me to be writing right now? Is it because I don't know my character well enough and so I'm avoiding it because I haven't done the work? Is it because I need to organize a closet? And many, many times I can identify, you know, I think it's actually this. I think it's because I'm falling behind in this part of my life and that needs some attention. And so then once I do that, then it kind of levels out me not wanting to write. And I think sometimes taking a break from writing makes me want to write more. So there's that part. And then sometimes it's just I don't want to write for whatever reason, and I have to write anyway because I do have a deadline and I take my deadlines very seriously.

Josi Kilpack (28:45):

It's important to me that I show up really well with my publisher. And it has paid off many times in my career because I turned my book in on time or early, and someone ahead of me in the queue misses their deadline, and they moved my book into that spot because I was on top of things. Like I said, I like to do things right. And in my head, I'm saying, hitting my deadline is right. That's the right thing for me to do. So that's kind of important to me, which means if I don't want to get my work done, then I have to come up with tricks for myself. One of my best tricks is a timer. And so I will set a timer for 30 minutes and I'm going to sit in that chair and I'm going to write for 30 minutes.

Josi Kilpack (29:25):

And sometimes at the end of that 30 minutes, I'm like, I'm out, I'm done, I did my 30 minutes. I can feel good about that. Tomorrow I'll do 30 minutes again. But many times, once I’ve sat there for 30 minutes, I got started on something. I worked through some of the cobwebs and the resistance that had built up in my brain. And now I'm on a roll, and now I can keep writing. And so I ended up getting more than those 30 minutes. And maybe I worked out whatever plot point was holding me back or whatever. So I'm a big believer in timers. I can't do a timer for two hours, but if it's bad enough that I need to set a timer, I'll come up with something for a half an hour. So, in half an hour I can get something done.

Josi Kilpack (30:02):

And so that's one of my tricks. The other one is if I don't feel like I can write or I feel blocked or whatever, is there one thing I can do right now? Maybe it's that I've known there's a character who I need to change his name. I’ve got his name as Gregory, but George in the book, and I can't have two G names. Okay, well, I'm going to go change Gregory's name. And so I'll go and do that one thing. And again, I get a sense of accomplishment, and then sometimes it'll capture me enough that I'm like, okay, well now I'm going to go read that scene and make sure that the new name that I came up with sounds right in that scene. And in that scene, maybe I ended up changing something. And so many times I will do that.

Josi Kilpack (30:37):

Like, what's the one thing? Okay. I need to rewrite that scene. I wrote yesterday, that's one thing, or I need to add page numbers, that's one thing, or I just need to write… I just need to go back over my first chapter one time. So just one thing, and then I'm not overwhelming myself, but I'm keeping or starting a kind of a level of momentum that is doable for me, and in the long run is going to pay off. I'm sure you've heard this at writer's conferences. I've heard it many times, but if you wrote one page a day, in a year you'd have 365 pages. And so I'll remind myself that, okay, if I fix this one thing, then that one thing is now fixed. That's one less thing that has to be fixed.

Josi Kilpack (31:21):

So it's going to move me forward, even just that tiny little amount. But I also believe that God meets us. When we put in a little bit of action, He gives a little bit of His time or His divinity or His clarity for us to make that progress. And I don't always feel that in the moment, but many times I can look back and say, okay, somehow I had six hours but I got 10 hours of work done. Or, I had this deadline I didn't think I could meet, and then this day opened up and I was able to put more time into it. And so I think it's all of those things. And it's not simple, it's not easy. I've had 33 books published, which means I've had 33 books that I was absolutely certain was garbage.

Josi Kilpack (32:04):

Except my first one, my first one I thought was amazing. It kind of was garbage. But every other book, I hit a point in every book, at least once, sometimes every day, of, this is garbage, this is a waste of my time. I'm wasting my time. I've used everything up. My last book was my last book. This book is never gonna work out. And what am I doing? And I can't make this work. And a million excuses. I'm too young. Well, now I'm too old or I’m too busy. Well, now I'm not busy enough, you know, whatever it is. And I deal with that every single time. I'm crafting a new series now. It's mystery. I've done mystery before. It's contemporary. I've done contemporary before, and I am so resistant to it because I'm afraid it's going to be garbage.

Josi Kilpack (32:35):

And I'm having to play those same games with myself and do it. As to why I do it? Because I want to, I want to keep publishing books. And I know that the only way I can publish books is if I write the books. So I have to do whatever it takes to write the books. And, at some point, I have to say, and it might be garbage. I might write this whole book and it might be garbage, but maybe I can fix it. Or maybe I get an idea from that that's going to help me with another story, I don't know. So, it’s going to be different for everybody, but that's kind of…

Connie Sokol (33:27):

I love it. I appreciate your authenticity and nailing it because every author and aspiring author out there can so relate to that feeling of this is garbage. And just thinking, did I actually write that? Was I, the person that penned that, right? But I love how you have taken us through that. And how you push through that and keep pushing through that. And it's just rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat, and you get better. It's on this upward spiraling vortex, which is gorgeous. And now I know that our time is out, but I wanted to wrap up with this one last thought, because it really segued beautifully. I love how you were saying, you know, asking yourself questions. Do I need to do this? Or what's it trying to tell me? That to me is such a faith based approach where what we're really asking is what is the Spirit telling me to do?

Connie Sokol (42:31):

It's trying to get a message to me. What is it telling me? And I would love to know, how has your faith particularly helped you? We talk about this intersection between faith, creativity, and professional skill. And I love how you have so naturally woven it through. What has been some of the moments, or maybe even an experience where you have felt like your faith has helped you to be able to express what you've needed to, or vice versa, you've had to come to a moment where you've had to align faith and creative expression in a way that was maybe unexpected. Has there been any experience like that for you?

Josi Kilpack (34:51):

There have been a lot of experiences like that for me. But again, it's never… I can't think of any off the top of my head that are like the seamless, beautiful stories. I don't know that it's that way. I think some of the great gifts of faith is that we are taught that we are creators, that we are here to create, that we are here to learn, that everything that we learn here we get to take with us and that those are things of eternal value. And so I think just that basis, that basic understanding, that foundational belief is going to carry all of us through in our pursuits. Because it gives purpose and it gives a point to all of this. And it's very difficult for me to imagine a life without that foundation, because it's always been a part of my life.

Josi Kilpack (35:47):

And I'm very grateful for that. I feel like my faith has encouraged me to create. Now, I can also say additionally, there's been times when my faith or maybe my faith community has discouraged me from creating, ‘cause I was a working mother. I was managing my career while I was raising my kids, and that didn't always look the way that people thought it should look. And I felt some of those things. But I would have to kind of go back to, I feel driven to do this. I pray all the time for help with my books. I don't consider myself someone who necessarily recognizes the spiritual promptings all the time. But I'm learning to better trust myself and realize that that's kind of how the Spirit talks to me is, it gives me just intuition and ideas. And as I trust myself and I trust those feelings that I have, and pursue them, they're either going to solve the problem I'm seeking to solve or they're going to lead me somewhere, eventually.

Josi Kilpack (36:40):

You know, I can remember some very specific times that I don't know that I can get into in a lot of detail, but where I felt that sense of, is there something else I need to do? And so I tuned into my kids a little bit better and realized that I had a kid dealing with something that I didn't know they were dealing with. And part of that was because Mom's so busy with her writing, they weren't coming to me with that. And, so then it's like, all right, well the writing's going to be put aside and I'm going to try and be a better mom here and see if I can help my kid through this situation. And so there were several times when my kids were teenagers that happened or the opposite where something blew up with my kids and suddenly my creativity is just shut down.

Josi Kilpack (37:21):

And so then it's like, okay, well you better pay attention because there's no… right here. But all of those things, I think overall believing that there's purpose in this, that God wants me to do this. And I have felt that, I have felt that this is part of my measure. You know, it used to be when I was first writing that it was all about the books, you know. I wrote this great book and I'm so proud of this book. And now that I've done this a long enough period of time, I've realized that God doesn't care that much about my books. He does, but mostly my books are there for a personal journey for me. They've been an opportunity for me to learn and for me to grow and for people to benefit from my stories.

Josi Kilpack (38:07):

But, you know, people spend a few hours with my stories. I spend months. And as I explore and research and learn and challenge myself, I grow, I become better. My best friends are writers that I met because I write. And I've been given great opportunities to teach and to mentor and to learn from remarkable writers. And those are the gifts that when we talk about laying up treasures in heaven, those things are remarkable to me. And it goes beyond just that creation of a book to kind of the creation of myself, which makes it sound like I'm super impressed with myself. Believe me, I've got lots to do. But I think we're all given certain vehicles in life that draw us closer to who we're supposed to be, as we work on that. It's relationships, it's roles in people's lives, it's callings, it's career paths, it's hobbies, it's interests. 

Josi Kilpack (39:02):

For me, writing is one of those vehicles that has taken me there. And, I rely on the Lord a lot. I yell at Him sometimes ‘cause I would like more help. And we worked that out. But, it has been a great part of my faith, and my faith has been a great part of my writing. And some people will recognize that I put certain gospel things into my book. It's never something I necessarily do on purpose, but I think it just reflects certain belief systems that I have that come through in my stories.

Connie Sokol (39:34):

So beautifully said. I could not agree more. And I love how you said that purpose, knowing that core foundational faith purpose in your writing, it supersedes what your book does. If it has an award, if it hits a certain status or if it's best-selling or not. I mean, of course we want those things and those are wonderful and great, but at the end of the day, you can feel the shifting that happens when you are truly all in with what you're trying to do. And I also appreciate that you brought up, for creatives, I think, that is the bane of our existence, that trying to keep God as our muse, so to speak, and not the news itself, right? And all these different directions we could go, but staying focused on the feeling of Him and doing it for Him. So I love how you openly, authentically, own those moments that you're like, I'm pulled off and He's pulling me back. But what I see is as long as we have the meekness to listen, to ask, and then to listen and do, to say, ah, you know what, I'm going to leave that, and I'm going to come right back here where He wants me to be. Then I think as a creative, especially, we can always trust that we're fulfilling that purpose and we're on that right road, no matter what the outcome specifically might be. Sweetie, I wish we had, as always, another 20, 30 minutes to be able to talk more.

Josi Kilpack (40:49):

It was so fun to talk to you, Connie. You just really make me think, and I love that.

Connie Sokol (40:54):

Right back at you. I know people listening, men and women listening and creatives and authors and speakers, they are going to want to know how to find you and get more from you and be able to even ask more questions of you. What's the best way for them to reach you?

Josi Kilpack (41:07):

So, I have a website, josiskilpack.com, and there's a ‘contact me' there that has an email address that does go through an assistant, but she sends things that are personal to me. And, so that's the best way to get in touch with me. I'm on Facebook. I have an author, Josi Kilpack, page. I have Instagram (authorjosiskilpack). I'm pretty easy to find, and I'm happy to answer questions. Just know I may not get back to you immediately, but I will get back to you. And my books are available at Deseret Book, Seagull Book. They're available on Amazon. But some of my earlier works are out of print, but sometimes you get lucky and find them on eBay. All of my books are on my website. They all have their own page. You can go in and read the first chapters of most of my books and get familiar with what it is I'm doing. My newest book is Love and Lavender. That just came out last week, and it's the fourth book in my Mayfield Family series and has been a lot of fun. And, so yeah, I'm easy to find.

Connie Sokol (42:02):

So excited, and I just got Love and Lavender, …to sit down and put my feet up and go into that world. Thank you so much. Appreciate you being with us today.

Josi Kilpack (42:11):

You betcha. Thanks for having me.

Connie Sokol (42:13):

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